The average house today is 48% bigger than the one in 1985!
~2375 sq ft for a new home today, vs ~1,600 in 1985.
And has amenities greater than those in 1985.
Interest rates being lower today is also a factor, as are lower down payment requirements.
But even putting the value of the greater amenities aside, in fact the ratio of the average wage earner income today to the cost of owning that 1985 size home today is actually pretty comparable.
Especially outside the most expensive/desirable cities and their associated suburbs.
And to repeat, the cost of most other things (college education being a very notable exception) is lower - especially lower relative to the quality. Many things available today weren’t available at any price (or only outlandishly high prices only the super rich could afford).
Housing might be the single most expensive thing, but it ain’t the only thing.
So it’s simply not true that most people are worse off today.
We are collectively a lot better off than we were 40 years ago. Most definitely including the average/median American by income, whose productivity is greater than it was 40 years ago (and greater still if adjusted for immigration, which in aggregate pulls the per capita productivity level down a bit).
P.S Again also missing from your claim is that many average income homeowners have benefited from that run-up in prices, and many people inherit homes from parents (and, sadly, fewer kids per family to divide up the inheritance among). While these might not be major factors, they still further reduce the number of people who are worse off today compared to in the past because the *relative* cost of housing has indeed gone up in the last 40 years.
You act like it's a good thing that's it's harder to find starter homes, I don't know what to say to that.
My friend, a cardiologist, recently bought a house from the estate of a woman whose husband had bought the place outside Indianapolis. The husband had been a plumber and bought the place in the late 1970s. It takes being a cardiologist to buy what a plumber used to be able to buy. (In fact, the home is now much older than it was then and has no new amenities). Also when you look at the constant above inflation rise in per square ft construction costs and the same in per acre land prices arguing that it's all because “homes are bigger” is flat out disingenuous.
Housing is an expense that can't really be substituted for or dodged. It's far more important to everyone than the price of anything else except food and perhaps clothing. It's called a housing crisis because it is. I suppose your explanation for lack of family formation is just straight up culture, as if people in their 20s want to live with their parents?
People in their 20s today are certainly worse off in so many ways (both economic and not) than people who were in their 20s when I was in the early 2000s were. I don't care what stays you throw at me, of that I am absolutely certain. Reading your arguments is like reading Biden press releases 18 months ago, you’re refusing to get the picture. It doesn't matter anyway.
Well, sure, if you ignore facts you can be absolutely certain about anything…
Housing is relatively more expensive than it used to be. I am NOT disputing that.
[Note: I didn’t say that all of the housing price increase is because of the increased size. I said that COMPARED TO AVERAGE INCOMES, most of the housing affordability gap increase comes from the increased size. And this is even more salient if you are talking about young people just starting out.]
And if you are dead set on living in the most expensive areas of the country, you might indeed face a higher cost of living than someone with your same relative income from 40 years ago, I concur.
But sorry, you are just wrong that the average American is worse off than 20 or 40 years ago. That is just unequivocal objective fact.
And you are also wrong that the average young person starting out has it overall worse off than they did 40 years ago. Even though for housing in desirable areas you are *without doubt* correct.
And this comes from someone who disagreed with almost every single Biden policy there was. Leftist policies have made Americans worse off than they otherwise would be, without doubt.
But what you miss is that the American economy, productivity and innovation have been *so* strong that they overcome that sad political reality, and most everyone is in fact better off today than decades ago.
“Even though for housing in desirable areas you are *without doubt* correct.”
Housing in the places where young people can have a decent chance of finding decent-paying employment is harder to come by for young people than it used to be, but that doesn't mean they’re worse off because housing in the towns and small cities they come from that have been hollowed out remains relatively cheap. Ok, sure.
Dude, young people are worse off on the housing issue, no question.
By the way, given the takeoff of remote work, then yes, if you’re willing to live in a low-cost area you can actually do much BETTER in terms of high paying jobs and lower cost of living than you could a few years ago.
Both of my twenty-something daughters work from home at good paying jobs.
One chooses to live in L.A. while she does so, and so faces a higher cost of living. Her tradeoff, her choice.
The other moved from S.F. to a moderately priced suburb in AZ, is renting a much bigger apartment for a lower cost than her share of the S.F. apartment she rented with two other women was. And is looking towards buying a house there in the foreseeable future.
(Now remote work has its downsides, too; most everything in life involves tradeoffs.)
But what you are entirely missing with your rants is that DESPITE the fact that housing costs more, in aggregate thanks to productivity increases and innovation, the average American is indeed better off than 20 or 40 years ago. And it’s not even close.
The average young person is better off too. Although there I’ll grant you at least that it’s somewhat closer.
In 1985 the average wage earner had a shot of affording the average house. Now that's impossible, explain how that doesn't make them worse off?
Here is what you are missing.
The average house today is 48% bigger than the one in 1985!
~2375 sq ft for a new home today, vs ~1,600 in 1985.
And has amenities greater than those in 1985.
Interest rates being lower today is also a factor, as are lower down payment requirements.
But even putting the value of the greater amenities aside, in fact the ratio of the average wage earner income today to the cost of owning that 1985 size home today is actually pretty comparable.
Especially outside the most expensive/desirable cities and their associated suburbs.
And to repeat, the cost of most other things (college education being a very notable exception) is lower - especially lower relative to the quality. Many things available today weren’t available at any price (or only outlandishly high prices only the super rich could afford).
Housing might be the single most expensive thing, but it ain’t the only thing.
So it’s simply not true that most people are worse off today.
We are collectively a lot better off than we were 40 years ago. Most definitely including the average/median American by income, whose productivity is greater than it was 40 years ago (and greater still if adjusted for immigration, which in aggregate pulls the per capita productivity level down a bit).
P.S Again also missing from your claim is that many average income homeowners have benefited from that run-up in prices, and many people inherit homes from parents (and, sadly, fewer kids per family to divide up the inheritance among). While these might not be major factors, they still further reduce the number of people who are worse off today compared to in the past because the *relative* cost of housing has indeed gone up in the last 40 years.
You act like it's a good thing that's it's harder to find starter homes, I don't know what to say to that.
My friend, a cardiologist, recently bought a house from the estate of a woman whose husband had bought the place outside Indianapolis. The husband had been a plumber and bought the place in the late 1970s. It takes being a cardiologist to buy what a plumber used to be able to buy. (In fact, the home is now much older than it was then and has no new amenities). Also when you look at the constant above inflation rise in per square ft construction costs and the same in per acre land prices arguing that it's all because “homes are bigger” is flat out disingenuous.
Housing is an expense that can't really be substituted for or dodged. It's far more important to everyone than the price of anything else except food and perhaps clothing. It's called a housing crisis because it is. I suppose your explanation for lack of family formation is just straight up culture, as if people in their 20s want to live with their parents?
People in their 20s today are certainly worse off in so many ways (both economic and not) than people who were in their 20s when I was in the early 2000s were. I don't care what stays you throw at me, of that I am absolutely certain. Reading your arguments is like reading Biden press releases 18 months ago, you’re refusing to get the picture. It doesn't matter anyway.
Well, sure, if you ignore facts you can be absolutely certain about anything…
Housing is relatively more expensive than it used to be. I am NOT disputing that.
[Note: I didn’t say that all of the housing price increase is because of the increased size. I said that COMPARED TO AVERAGE INCOMES, most of the housing affordability gap increase comes from the increased size. And this is even more salient if you are talking about young people just starting out.]
And if you are dead set on living in the most expensive areas of the country, you might indeed face a higher cost of living than someone with your same relative income from 40 years ago, I concur.
But sorry, you are just wrong that the average American is worse off than 20 or 40 years ago. That is just unequivocal objective fact.
And you are also wrong that the average young person starting out has it overall worse off than they did 40 years ago. Even though for housing in desirable areas you are *without doubt* correct.
And this comes from someone who disagreed with almost every single Biden policy there was. Leftist policies have made Americans worse off than they otherwise would be, without doubt.
But what you miss is that the American economy, productivity and innovation have been *so* strong that they overcome that sad political reality, and most everyone is in fact better off today than decades ago.
I hope you have a great day.
“Even though for housing in desirable areas you are *without doubt* correct.”
Housing in the places where young people can have a decent chance of finding decent-paying employment is harder to come by for young people than it used to be, but that doesn't mean they’re worse off because housing in the towns and small cities they come from that have been hollowed out remains relatively cheap. Ok, sure.
Dude, young people are worse off on the housing issue, no question.
By the way, given the takeoff of remote work, then yes, if you’re willing to live in a low-cost area you can actually do much BETTER in terms of high paying jobs and lower cost of living than you could a few years ago.
Both of my twenty-something daughters work from home at good paying jobs.
One chooses to live in L.A. while she does so, and so faces a higher cost of living. Her tradeoff, her choice.
The other moved from S.F. to a moderately priced suburb in AZ, is renting a much bigger apartment for a lower cost than her share of the S.F. apartment she rented with two other women was. And is looking towards buying a house there in the foreseeable future.
(Now remote work has its downsides, too; most everything in life involves tradeoffs.)
But what you are entirely missing with your rants is that DESPITE the fact that housing costs more, in aggregate thanks to productivity increases and innovation, the average American is indeed better off than 20 or 40 years ago. And it’s not even close.
The average young person is better off too. Although there I’ll grant you at least that it’s somewhat closer.